please hold your breath now.
in what seems like a phone call made in total elation, my dealer called me and screamed "kubala sosna emotion thrashed stage III concepts vacuum gold reference!"
i was stunned for more than a few seconds. just how could it be? a RM12,000 interconnect beating a RM20,000 interconnect????
my dealer added, "when you got the k-s kubala emotions from joe, one of the XLR plugs was shorted with pin-2 and pin-3 wrongly soldered! that's why your sound is not good!".
my god. i was speechless. i am going to screw joe kubala soon for his carelessness.
my elated dealer further asserted, "we pit k-s emotion against stage III vacuum in a RM400K (USD100K) system, and the k-s is clearly superior in all three frequency bands. soundstaging is notably better (much taller) than stage III's. when we pit the k-s against AQ amazon (the former top model before DBS), it was like child's play, k-s practically white-washes the AQ! however, k-s emotion only works in newer speaker designs like marten design but not eggleston andra".
my dealer wants me to thank all the readers who suggested this superb brand to me. he is confident that the k-s will rule in malaysia.
my apologies to readers for a misleading review. bad, bad, bad me. i am going to repent now.
meanwhile, we hail the new cable king!
infrequent updates
8 years ago
64 comments:
K-S seems to have major quality control problems then.....
Have you done the comparison yourself rather than the KS dealer who is most likely to be biased?
Can we hear from a neutral party instead?
Thanks.
Anonymous and Maggie,
What your dealer describe is more of the KS I know of..
Like I said before with my Kharma ,nothing sounds better,and that is why most Kharma users use the emotions fr A -z.There is just nothing better.....
Here,s another best kept secrect....Argento cables,
and then there's Jorma...
Maggie,
If anything ,it shows how sharp your ears were and you were not swayed by anyones reputation.
You have absolutely no right to feel bad!!!
AQ ,Transparent ,MIT areway behind the pack leaders .I believe KS emotion {I am an owner]series fr PC to Sp cables are the best bargain in Ultra High End today..
Your dealers are to be congratulated
I am sorry anonymous I don't think Jorma can be utter in the same breath as Argento,Jena lab and Stealth Indra...Go have a listen and you will know what I mean
To the first anonymous,have a listen for yourself...but be warned!!!You life will never be the same again.Come prepared with a cheque book.BTW who is the local dealer?
patl,
Interesting observation. Which AQ, Transparent or MIT did you manage to compare with the KS Emotion? Probably the WEL/Sky, Opus MM2 or Oracle MA?
Maggie,
I think your review was not misleading at all .After so much effort put by you ,and they supply you with a faulty cable,and you piock up the defect!!!!bravo i'd say
there will be plenty of used good stuffs from the likes of AQ, Taralabs, Stage III, MIT, Transparent, Siltech, etc when people rush to the new K-S stuffs. Looking forward to some good deals and pls post them on hifi 4 sale. Yippee....
We know cables are system dependent no matter how expensive or how high end they may be. So saying KS thrashed this or that simply sounds like a marketing statement.
Saying KS will rule in Malaysia is another sweeping statement and does not help KS at all when it is a new brand coming into Malaysia. I hope dealers are more careful of what they say and be more helpful to audiophiles by giving proper advise.
I hope it is not the case to bring another product in to get another round of business.
A proper review and better details of the system used to test the cables will surely help.
With high end audio, some of these brand generalization does not help.
Pls do a better job to market these new cables for this region.
for the amount of money spent, its certainly very disgusting to read that the manufacturer did not bother to even test it or even voice it to make sure the soldering was done right.
On the dealer's revelation, its holds no water. THe dealer has a vested interest in this
If a simple electrical test or a visual test is not even done, how would the end user know whether the cable can last the ages.
The cable would sound good no doubt but the zero testing shows inproper attitude towards making a truly great cable
Lots of small boutique cable companies are just small one-man show...soldering and assembly is probably contracted to mexican cheap labor in the US.
If you want bona-fide big cable manufacturers, these are the big-fish cable companies with their own metal foundries and wire drawing factories who also OEM for big-names like Belden, Neotech, Mogami, Furukawa, Acrolink (formerly Acrotec) etc. It's no coincidence that most of these cable OEM manufacturers are either in Taiwan or in Japan, drawing upon the reseach and patents of Professor Ohno of the Chiba Institute of Technology who founded the Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC) Process. Most audiophile cable companies OEM from these mentioned companies, 'coz they do not have the resources to make cables from scratch.
Anonymous ,I do not think you have actually heard The K_S emotion.
I can tell you that this is one cable that is NOT system dependant.
A lot of midrange cables are system dependant because they Add a lot of Colourations.The KS Emotions is as neutral as it gets,
Having said that ,Your preamp-amp and certainly your speakers MUST be able to handle a Wide enough frequencies to be able to convey the music without congestions..
The problems with the American giant cable manufacturers are they usred a lot of machine,hence the AQ,Tara,MIT are actually way way overpriced for what you get..
I agree that the Japanese makes fairly good MID -Fi range of cables ,but they are always not good enough for hi-end and ultra hi-end system..
And if you think OHNO process is the last word in manufacturing streess -free silver& copper ,you are missing out A Lot!!!!!!
Max Here's my System:
Audie aero Capitole Ref CD/Lamm ml2.1/l-2 Ref amp/kharma grand Ceramique,Townsend stand and finite elements pucs on everything.
I have tried The top of the Line fr those manufactureres including TARA the Zero,and some others that are not available here,and it so happen that the KS emotion happened to be even the cheapest!!!and it was the most musical,most detail,and most transparent among thst the lot..I exactly know what the dealer was talking about because that was exactly what happened to me {and a lot of other people i know]
Maggielurva,
I am just apprehensive about KS cables cause they can afford to make "schoolboy mistakes" especially when their cables costs thousand of dollars.
I am a bit curious on how one can say that the KS cable seem to sound better with newer models of speakers. Please elaborate.
Hi All,
Are the K-S cables made of copper? Just curious if this is related to the synergy with newer speakers like Kharma and Marten.
I just checked on audioasylum, audiocircle and audiogon forums and there are mixed feelings with K-S cables. Some really like them and some others not so i guess one has to try out.
BTW there are some used K-S Emotions on audiogon.
Ken,
More than the design I think you need to look at the quality of internal wiring.
A lot of speaker manuf unfortunately use really lousy internal cables,so there is where the bottleneck occur.JMHO
I agree with lionel
Even the older Kharma sound good with the emotion.And Marten speakers are nothing short of breathtaking in term of parts used
Richard-Expat..
The claim "that the Japanese makes fairly good MID -Fi range of cables" is a lot of bull. Just go and try some premium/Mexcel range of Acrolink cables now distributed by Esoteric in the US (used to be Lotusgroup who makes another KS competitive cable called Pranawire). The technology behind Acrolink Mexcel series will leave many other cable manufacturers in the dust.
If KS is that special, ask them one question, do they make their own cables? Do they have their own metallurgy lab or whatever exotic materials like nanocarbon tubes like Stealth? If not, then they probably OEM their cables somewhere and spice it up... ;-)
Just read the KS technology writeup
So called OptimiZ architecture...
http://www.kubala-sosna.com/news/optimiz.htm
So called RevolutionZ design
http://www.kubala-sosna.com/news/revolutionz.htm
Lots of woolly words in their technology write-up that cannot even define exactly what makes their cables so different... ;-)
At least Shunyata does one better, it explains clearly what is their technology behind the cables without that much woolly verbiage ;-)
If K-S is indeed copper or some copper alloy then it could very well be OEM from Taiwan or Japan with assembly and packaging done in the US. This is common for smaller cable manufacturers.
In any case K-S could still be a very fine cable and better priced compared to the larger cable manufacturers like Cardas, AQ and Taralabs especially with the huge mark ups here in Malaysia.
Anonymous,I am sorry I think you do get carried away with Sal;es jargon that the Japanese
companies are very famous for.
1)Does Mercedes makes their own steel?No they don't ,but theyare smart enought to know where to get them.Even most of the components are not made by them.
2.Just because you could OEM your own metals doesn't mean that you could make your own cables!!!
3.I used to work in a company that has been bought over by A Japanese firm{I won't mention names here]The first thing that they do when Mercedes comes out with a car is to remove it part,by part and try to copy it and throw in some marketing jargons!!!
So finally ,it is easy to write about the so called technologies,but the final test is the listening chair.I can tell you even in Japan[proud people that they are] you will see very few Japanese made Cables in the High end and Ultra hi-end systems...
I agree with Willy,
Even Lotus use Toyota engine,and the new Porsce cayanne use VW design.
There is nothing to be ashamed about if you OEM your metal elsewhere ,in fact it would be advantageous,because you wouldn't limit yourself to a certain suppliers..
Making Audio cables from metals is just as complex as making cars from metal IMO
Anonymous,
As much as I share your enthusiasms for Japanese cables and accesories ,I must disagree with you here.
Even most speakers manufacturers doesn't make their own components[Especially drive]It is because they are smart enought...I wouldn't even dream of buying from a manufacturers that makes EVERYTHING themselves.//
The challange is to come with the design and find the right manuf to do the job for you..Nothing to be ashamed off,and certainly the real test is the listening chair,;and from what I gather KS emotion certainly has got most things right
When 80% of the product technology is the cables, I would rather buy the best product from the OEM manufacturer rather than from the one that cover an OEM cable with nice aesthetics around it and then spend $$$ marketing it to sell it to you as their very own. Using the car as an analogy is pure irelevance, because firstly there are more than 10,000 parts that go into the assembly of a car. How many parts are there to an audiophile cable? I can count on one hand the main parts
1) The raw internal cable
2) End point terminators (RCA/XLR/spades etc)
3) Shielding
4) Ferrous rings/MIT-Transparent Audio blocks..
5) Solder
So if there are any other 99995 parts of your special built-in-the-west special overbrew cables that I missed out, please state them ;-).
The way you all describe it is as though the cable is like a complicated black box and only those in the west with overpaid salaries can design them. Fact is most of them still depends on the OEM manufacturers in the east. ;-)
Lots of US/Canadian cable manufacturers use Neotech of Taiwan as their base (not that it is a bad thing) eg Harmonic Tech, Acoustic Zen, Atlas etc. Audience is rumored Mogami too. Many high-end power cord manufacturers also use Oyaide plugs to beef up their range, eg Purist Audio, Argento, Wolff, Audioquest,VH, etc.
As for not seeing Japanese cables in high-end systems, I have seen many use Acrolink, Mogami, Furutech etc. You probably never even read Stereo Sound or Audio Accessories magazines from Japan ;-)
Also can anybody explain to me what's so special about the technology behind KS cables. Perhaps they have really have something to crow about that we do not already know ;-) Can we have some technology white paper, other than just marketing adjectives that can describe any other overhyped product..that is so emotional, so fascinating, so sensational, so imaginative, so expressional, so anticipative ;-)
Is there a reason why K-S would work better on Marten Design and not Eggleston? Can someone pls help enlighten?
I use MBL stand mount so i appreciate inputs if K-S will work good with them.
To anonymous who wrote about the 80% thing, i cannot agree with you more. The conductor is extremely key.
Top cables usually have proprietory in-house developed and fabricated metals like Acrolink, Stealth, Stage III Concepts, and many more. Some of these are even hand made to reduce stress.
This is an interesting thread.
To Anonymous;
1]I do not know whether K-S OEM their product or not,I think it is just moot.What is important is the mettalurgy process is developed in house.
2]If you think the analogy of car is too far fatched ,let me take the example of speakers.No major speakers manufacturers OEM their drivers and internal cablings[These includes Kharma,Hanson,Wilson Audio etc]They have their own design,yes,their "secrect" material,yes,but none of the big guns make from scratch.But does that make their speakers less musical?Would you rather listen to SEAS speakers to Hanson's?I don't think so
3}I think you are confusing between developing the design and using propiety mettalurgy VS OEM,OEM is the easiest part,that is why INTEL comes and do it here.
4]I certainly meant no offense,and I truly apologize if you are hurt by my comments
3]
Anonymous,
I think you just spend too much time reading,instead of trying to listen to the music,
The best way to settle the issue is really to listen,instead of trying to see what the y dsay in the magazines
the truth is a lot of the Japanese Hi ender DO NOT use Japanese made brands,and the american cables are hugely successful there..
Now ,what they show you in the magazines are completely different matter altogether.I recommend for you to actually make friends with so me of them.
No offense intended
And how many parts does a speaker have vs how many parts does a cable have? Quit using such disparate analogy to qualify that wiring technology does not matter whether it is OEM or not?
Till date, no review or googled info does state whether KS has their own proprietary metallugical cable recipe. So to say that they have their own metallurgy process is just as moot...prove me otherwise ;-)
Here's what inside an boutique virtual dynamics cables after a cat tore it up ...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3-a-293165/
Most important parts of a cable is still its internal wiring and connectors and shielding. Then perhaps its geometrical aspects, like winding, and how many strands of copper/silver etc it use. Besides how many Ns, the price of the top range Audionote and Acrolink cables actually depends on how many strands of high purity silver or copper wires it use...the more strands the more expensive, which I guess is a fair formula ;-)
hi anonymous,
you seem to be pushing japanese products aggressively, are you a dealer from s'pore? x-audio or audio basic???
Again, another subjective biased unverifiable statement
"the truth is a lot of the Japanese Hi ender DO NOT use Japanese made brands,and the american cables are hugely successful there.."
To each and every high-end system that use US cables, I can always find a japanese high end system for you which used their own Acrolink or Kondo cables.
So what's your point?
To show that US marketing is more successful? ;)
On the other hand, I am just trying to say most audiophile cables made in the west still comes from the east... too bad this pricks your ego ;)
Ben, I am not a dealer for the mentioned to companies and I am not even affiliated to any of them.
I have used many cables from Taralab, Aural Symphonics, XLO, MIT etc from decades ago (all marketed in stereophile mag) but in the past 5 years decided to go east. It's been too much neglected in Malaysia who only look to the west. I hope someone does bring in something from japan soon, to reverse all this brainwash ;)
Not really on cables but a sad story of how an original Japanese company got usurped into a British..
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=37527
Anonymous,
I think you are being naive here,
For every Japanese company that has been usurped by a British one ,there will be 10 equivalent of the reverse...
Again,
I agree that Acrolink [Not sure about Kondo cables} is sligtly better than the likes of AQ,MIT.But I think They are way behind the likes of Argento,KS,Bocchino IC,
And have you read the review of Acoustic revive and Furutech demagnitizers?Apparently it's just Voodoo....
That is my main problems with a lot of The Japanese Hi Fi products,,,too much voodoo.....
To wayne, I can also say that Argento,KS,Bocchino, and to add more Stage, Jorma and Stealth are also way behind Kondo, Acrolink and other names you want.
Why? Because on the internet you can spout anything you want without proof ;).
Anyway, which cable is better is so subjective at these levels, a bit more resolution, and some may say too bright, a bit rich in the mids, and some say colored..
But I have not been stressing which cable is better, have I? On the contrary, just want to let people be more aware of small boutique brands that may be more overhyped on marketing verbiage than having any real cable development technologies that they come up with.
To ish..
What is voodoo?
Two sides of a coin.
At one end are those who buy what they like the sound of. At the other end are those who "demand" a good science as we know it based explanation before they would buy a new power cord, tweak, component etc., lacking that they seem inclined to believe that those selling whatever it is are engaged in a scam or voodoo..
Got it? ;)
To Jack,
Please go ahead and quote your 10 more examples of which audio companies got usurped by the Japanese in this manner, I am really all ears to hear your tales of morbidity ;)
Anonymous That's easy!!
Just go to Furutech webpage for every product that they have it is a copycat of a western product..
Let me give you give you an eg ,you can have fun figuring out the rest,it ain't that difficult,
The Cd cleaner/enhancer is a copy of walker Audio Ultra Vivid[that is doing phenominally well in Japan]...
To Jackie
Sorry but Furutech is the biggest copycat of them all, they even copy their own Japanese counterpart, eg copycat of all Oyaide plugs ;)
But just to give you some leeway, that's only 1 company, give me 9more..mr so-easy..
Do you know that harmonix is acopy of Kimbre?
The Combak corp has been the dealer for Kimbre product in Japan.
And the famed Oyaide plugs are copies of Hubbel and Wattgate.?
I rest my case
To Jack,
Did Oyaide distribute Hubbel for Japan? Rest your case 'cos you give the weakest and most ludicrous examples. As for Harmonix being distributor of Kimble, give me some URL to state that, if not, your account is just rumor mongering
1]Wattgate.com/mainpages/internationalDealers.
Please look under Japan.BTW Wattgate is a Kimbre company
2.Wattgate has recently launched a new high current plating process..mark my word,youy Oyaide will follow soon.They have been copying Cardas,Kimber etc for eons .
So sorry to dissapoint you ,Can I finally rest my case,or you want some more hertbreaking secrects?
To jack,
First you said Hubble and now you twist and say Wattgate. Next you say Cardas. Ask to provide link of where it says Harmonix distribute Kimble and you give a Wattgate example. By your way of reasoning, all tv manufacturers were also copied by Japanese...
Usurping means taking the same brand product branding to make as your own, that is what the Kondo Audio Note case is about...
i said hubbell and wattgate.please check your fact!!!
SO does Harmonix/combax distribute wattgate or not,in Japan?Wattgate is the brand name of Kimber that makes plugs etc...the ones OYAIDE is fond of copying...
Usurping and copying is the same to me,at least in essence....
OH BTW here's another one for the road,Reimyo CDP is a copy of what? I won't give 10k like Maggie,but it won't be hard to figure...HAve Fun!!!
hi folks,
sorry i have been busy and what an avalanche of replies!
my dealer has not officially accepted the offer until they are convinced that the k-s is good. they won't be so silly as to accept something that is inferior to stage III, which they carried in the past. and the fact that k-s is much cheaper is really a bonus for them cos it is easier to sell.
while it is exciting to read so many comments, i really don't want this blog to degenerate into another of those infamous forum where people throw stones and engage in trivial cat fights. we shall respect individualism in opinions.
so, shall we close this chapter and move on?
thanks.
To ish,
Pls check the reviews on acoustic revive's demagnetizers. They are not voodoo. You must really get out more often.
The ground conditioner is also catching on in the USA. Pls surf a bit and you will know.
I use both USA and Japanese product where they are good. But will be trying out European products soon as there are more and more great brands there. The USA products are falling behind.....sadly.
Turntables, speakers and solid state amps are now dominated by the Europeans while CDP/SACD and tube electronics by the Japanese.
Ok back to cables....
Only some cables stay with the USA but only those handmade silver ones like Purenote, RSA's Poiema and Stage III and Stealth.
If any manufacturer uses OEM then i rather buy Taiwanese and Japanese cables.
Oh BTW, the USA's Symposium roller blocks/platforms and Quantum Resonance Technology stuffs are pretty good.
So both American and Japanese make good tweaks.
At this point i don't have good feelings on K-S but if there are samples to try out, sure i will give them a go.
"Of an assortment of 18 different types of power plugs from all over the world, we carefully considered the aspects of the design which yield the highly audible sound differences between them. Several models of Wattgate, Furutech, Oyaide, and other lesser known competitors were all compared against each other in the same cable design. The winner by a longshot was the dark ruby colored Oyaide model 079 (double polished and double gold-plated). This goes for both the wall socket end of the power cord as for the IEC power connector end. "
From http://www.lessloss.com/lessloss_power_cable.html
As the chinese, green comes out of blue...and the present supercedes the past ;)
Last sentence got truncated, should be
"As the Chinese saying goes, green comes out of blue, the present supercedes the past"
Check
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/wattgate-marinco-furutech-oyaide-etc-real-world-differences-221506/#post2684236
"Wattgate is nothing special..in fact wattgate (or Kimber for that matter) does not build the connectors. they buy them off Marinco and re-brand them, but get this..to make the story even better Marinco does not make the connectors..instead Pass and Seymour makes and sells to Marinco,which in turn sells to Wattgate..only difference in a Wattgate over a Marinco is the name on the plastic and the higher price to you (the consumer)"
Oh yes, Wattgate is no more than re-marked Marinco...
For more tricks of the trade read up
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/wattgate-marinco-furutech-oyaide-etc-real-world-differences-221506/
Even more revelations on that great innovator Wattgate or rather "Wattaclaim"
"This great Marinco® power plug might look familiar to you. It is the same plug offered by Wattgate® at 3 or 4 times our price! They also claim to make them in-house. 'Watt-a-Claim!' It is actually made by California based Marinco®, a large company that manufactures hundreds of power plugs, sockets and power distribution products. Our high-priced competitor buys the stock Marinco® part, then hot stamp the words 'audio grade' and a 'blue star' graphic into it. They also apply '3-layer' gold plating to the tangs. This layered copper, nickel, and gold plating may severely degraded the sound of the stock part, adding a haze and removing definition from the sound. It is NOT cryo treated in any way by any method. After comparing, audiophiles agree that a stock Marincoä part sounds better than their high price version, and that the JENA LABS® Deep Immersion Cryogenic treatment radically improves the sound of the Marinco® plug! Our treated plug is also very affordably priced. "
From http://www.jenatek.com/pages/powercords.html
This whole thing looks very funny to me. Since when technology is more important than good music. Good music depends the the ear of the beholder ... at least to me. If KS is good then beat it. Dont like dont blame it. KS has done their best and matter infact better then the rest of us. At least they have cables with their names. Funny .... very funny.
At this price point, it's fair for the buyer to know what he's getting when he pays so high, is it marketing hype around OEM cables or real technology innovations. Most often it's the former.
Check this out
http://afublog.blogspot.com/2005/08/pad-purist-audio-design-is-very.html
This whole thing started with dealers making sweeping statements because they no longer carry the previous top cable.
This is poor marketing and show just how poor and immature local dealers are at their profession. It is no surprise that many local hobbyist are parallel importing cables from US, S'pore and HK.
This is a disfavor to K-S cables.
More expensive wine tastes better, heck with the technology...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article3177658.ece
Try again..
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_
style/food_and_drink/article3177658.ece
Dear All,
This blog is getting interesting with all web pages showing us what is "allegedly" done by the some cable manufacturers.
I have got nothing against any cable manufacturer as long their cable sound good. But some cables cost even more than my whole system.
It just makes me think. If I buy a good new cable which cost thousands now and then later found that it is superceded by another design a couple of years later. Now I just wait or buy secondhand.
Yes, this is good information and is eye opening when you actually see the OEM cables inside a branded one. I am now even more suspicious of the K-S cables.
Shop smart and buy used where possible especially when it comes to cables.
Yes, this is good information and is eye opening when you actually see the OEM cables inside a branded one. I am now even more suspicious of the K-S cables.
Shop smart and buy used where possible especially when it comes to cables.
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