I got to the battlefield at 10 this morning. The victor was strutting its stuff at centre stage. There were cables lying all around, literally, on the carpet in front of the system. It was not a pretty sight... No, no, hang on, it was actually quite a pretty sight, it was rare to get so many high end cables in the same room at the same time, and one did not just get to ogle but also listen to them in action…heavenly!
I plonked myself in the listening seat and maggielurva proceeded to play all his normal test CDs. Well, we already knew how taken maggielurva was by the ASP Gryphon, so I thought let’s see how much better it was in the normal hifi departments – I proceeded to analyze its performance in the bass, mid, treble, its resolution, its soundstaging capability etc. etc… Before long, I realized that it was all quite pointless. It was as if the ASP Gryphon was gently telling me that those were the wrong questions to ask. The appropriate question with the Stage
Before we get to that, let me quickly dispose of the hifi analysis stuff – in maggielurva’s system, the bass was excellent, it came on strong and even rattled my listening seat; the mid was as textured and palpable as ever; the treble was smooth and clean; the soundstage was wider and deeper, much deeper, it was more 3-dimensional than before; the resolution was first rate.
Then, the Gryphon went much ahead, to say that it was good in this and that was not appropriate. The music from maggielurva’s system was presented with an ‘oneness’ so complete that you could not but recognize it as ‘real’. For me to be able to understand / analyze this fully I’m afraid I’d need more time. I might just want to say that it was organic, it was seamless, it had natural flow…and they were all correct. I also thought that they got the ‘musical tension’ part right too (very very right). Some systems tend to tighten the tension a tad too much, that may give a sense of excitement but makes you grit your teeth some time. Some loosen it a tad too much, the music presentation may be relax but can also become lethargic and uninteresting. Maggielurva’s system with the ASP Gryphon got it right on every disc played, and it had the knack to get it right according to the music, like on the slow, atmospheric Rickie Lee Jones, and on the hard-charging and rocked out Teddy Robin.
The music through maggielurva’s system with the ASP Gryphon this morning was so real, it was like I was going to the concerts – I had 2v1g and Rickie Lee Jones performing in maggielurva’s hall live for me. I think there can’t be any higher accolade.
What about the vanquished? The Kubala-Sosna Emotion, the Stage
Today’s listening session with the Stage
final relative score:
[1] stage III concepts asp gryphon - 100/100
[2] kubala-sosna emotions - 80/100 (tie)
[2] stage III concepts magnus - 80/100 (tie)
[4] audioquest sky - 75/100
32 comments:
Hail Loui de la fuoente!!!!
I really hope he would come to Malaysia as suggested by some of the readers.
Brutal!!K-s"s Waterloo in Desirable audio Boutique
The ASP Gryphon should be tested in various systems to hear how versatile it is.
100 %,Maggielurva? Wish you were my high school teacher.
100 % and 80 % is very wide in hi-end standard.It is like listening to ARC Ref amp to NAD entry level.Now my hand is very itchy to try and my ears are twitching non-stop........how to tell the Mrs now......now i see why Maggie is not married...
Hi Hafikaki,
Except for The Chosen One, I would think all of us in this part of the world, including you, belong to the "every one else" cable group.
Not that I'm doubting you, but perhaps your review of the ASP Gryphon is too "extremely enthusiastic."
Not that I'm doubting the cable, but every cable, or hifi equipment for that matter, has flaw(s) of the additive and/or substractive manner, however minor it may be, period. If there are no flaws, then the buck stops right there (like reinventing the wheel), and there is no need for further revisions.
So perhaps more time and further evaluation processes with different types of music, systems or listening panels should be made before giving such high accolades.
For a RM24k cable, which is a princely sum to pay by most standards, every minor flaw should be magnified but achievement subdued unless it is truly outstanding.
The above are just my thoughts not because I'm being negative or too critical, but I don't read any caveat in the ASP Gryphon review.
Is this the state of the art cable for now?
Or perhaps the perfect cable?
Speaking on behalf, if I may say so, for the "every one else" cable group.
Thanks for reading.
are you going to make a review on the opus?
guys,
the keyword is "relative" score; it is not absolute. the rule of diminishing return does not apply on the stage III gryphon. it is a quantum leap from the rest of the pack we tested in the group.
hi km,
we know we can't please everyone. we choose the please the majority of the readers here who would like to read about esoteric or ground-breaking stuff, regardless of price.
not that we can afford it either but it doesn't stop us from having fun, does it?
didn't we state it is the "state-of-the-art"? at least, we can't find any discernible flaws at the moment, or that any flaws that are too obvious too pick up. as we have said, it is the total performance that had us enchanted.
over-enthusiastic? i don't think so. you haven't heard it, that's why.
i have said it many times and i will say it again - a system cannot reach its optimal performance without the use of good cables.
built62,
transparent audio? er.... er.... er... ;-)
Anonymous,
Yes, for those who are interested in the ASP Gryphon, please do take a listen yourselves. Nothing beats a real listening session.
Hi aboon,
I am excited that you are excited!
NAD is a very capable brand, no doubt. I have heard them many times.
All the cables involved here are at the pinnacle of the cable making art, in my opinion. And their performance are all really quite exemplary. In the context of this listening session, there were of course better or worse differences in relation to each other. But honestly, I'll be happy to live with any one of them, depending on how deep my pocket is :-)
Hi km ng,
I'd like to point out a few relevant contexts when you read what I wrote:
1. This is a blog entry, not a full review of the ASP Gryphon. (e.g., something meant for AVXpress).
It is labelled as 'hifi review' in blogging context, in that it provides a quick run through of the characteristics of the item(s) as observed. In blogging, I’d try to be as succinct as I can make it.
Of course, like you mentioned, further listening should / can be carried out on them, especially when a full review is intended. That is obvious.
2. If I came across as 'extremely enthusiastic', then YES, I WAS. The context of this extreme enthusiasm was this listening session, done over a morning, in maggielurva's system, in relation to all the other cables involved (I am sure this context of my extreme enthusiasm is clear in my writing).
In another system that is not as capably set up or as transparent as maggielurva’s, I might not have the same extreme enthusiasm, obviously.
3. No caveat was given and no flaw was mentioned because none was noted from this listening session.
4. On your point that the ASP Gryphon cables could have flaws - I can agree to such a possibility. Please refer again to point 1 about a full review and point 3 on context.
5. Please re-read my second last paragraph, the ‘every one else’, again, is in the context of this group (which is an extremely strong group, I must say). I’d not be so presumptuous to group EVERYONE’s cables, including yours, as ‘every one else’ simply because I have not heard every one of them. That I hope is also obvious.
If you think there are other cables that are better than the ASP Gryphon, I am not going to argue, but would really look forward for you to share it with us, for the learning and knowledge of every one here. That would be real cool.
Generally speaking, I hope I do not have to state the obvious in what I write. In the worst worst case, some might think I’m insulting their intelligence; In the best worst case, that would make my writings damn boring. :-)
I fully agree with both Maggielurva and Hi-fi kaki about the importance of the review and their enthusism in that particular listening contact.
Often time I read about people[in magazines and forums] who outright condemed the reviewer for "making" them buy a certain product,but when they review them in THEIR OWN SYSTEM they couldn't get the desired results.Instead of blaming themselves ,often time ,they blame the reviewer.
I could see that Maggielurva, and to an exytent Hi-fi kaki takes great care in setting up their gears.I we as careful? I don't know;but if you still have people who play hi fi by maths[ 2k CDP ,musyt match with 2k amp,with 2k sp.;old cannot meet with new etc,,,,}what can you expect?
And built62, Transparent cables??? come on....
Dear Maggielurva,
1. No doubt cables are important in a system, so is every component in it. I wonder whether it is conventional hifi wisdom to buy an interconnect cable more expensive than the source, amplifiers or speakers in order to "reach its optimal performance."
2. Equipment (and all the cables connecting it) is 1 of the 4 cornerstones of getting good sound - the others being set up, listening room and recordings. To reach optimal performance, I believe all of these must work in harmony with each other, with the owner and with the music - the last being the most important.
3. It's good to have fun in our hifi hobby but it's prettty serious when you're commenting/reviewing an equipment in writing - from the readers, dealers and manufacturers viewpoints. If not, how can it be taken seriously or with authority?
4. Not enthusiastic? In your own words, "exactly 30 seconds the winner killed off the loser", "winner has it 2-3 times more", "most accurate", "mind-blowing", "mouth agape, eyes wide open, trying hard to search for adjectives", "how god intended audiophile cables to be", etc, etc. If these (and more in the shoot out commentary) are not enthusiastic comments, I really don't know what are. Hifikaki confirmed his were "extremely enthusiastic."
5. Oh well, maybe I haven't tasted the forbidden fruit (but sure tasted some good imposters), ie, heard THE cable that leads to Alladin's inner hifi cave of most wondrous sounds.
Dear Hifikaki,
1. Well, it sure was a big bang 1st impression.
2. I hope when all the initial euphoria has settled down, you'll review more "critically" by playing more demanding music (can Teddy Robin rock?) in your own system, of course. Never mind if it's less transparent than Maggielurva because, from your 1st impression, the cable should be able to transform it.
3. We are talking the best of the best here and like each coach analysis of Tyson Gay or Usain Bolt 100m dash, every micro detail must be identified, analysed and compared.
4. The headline of the blog entry was "...then there was every one else" in bold. What is a reader supposed to think on reading this? Sorry, I missed the fine print that "every one else" only included 3 other cables.
5. My cable is el-cheapo and comparing to these super heavyweights is like me trying to kick sand to Incredible Hulk's face. And I can't run very fast. :)
6. Looks like Maggielurva has already made up his mind as in his "final relative score", he gave 100/100 to the ASP Gryphon.
All,
Please note I'm not doubting Maggielurva or Hifikaki comments on the ASP Gryphon or other super cables in general. They are just my alternative viewpoints to put things into perspective.
The 2 biggest changes to any system are the speakers and the room. Cables, though they are important, affect the micro changes (important too) which are mostly frequency response curve and noise related. However, to my mind, cables cannot attack and cure the exact problems of our system. To use cables to do so is akin to tuning our system with cables.
The end result?
We'll end up with lots of cables to walk the dog. :)
Thanks for reading.
When you read a good review, the review compares the equipment with various genres of music.
Then with each type of music the equipment or cable in this case, the strengths and weakness are highlighted.
This is commonly done to show the broad spectrum of sonic taste of the cable. Also is very important because not every audiophile listens to vocals but may indulge say in world music or classical.
Do note different genre comparisons with the cable reaches to more audiophile wanting to find out more about whether it suites their musical taste
Readers may perceive your immediate judgment in 30seconds as a mental block on considering the other strengths of the other competition cable. Just like when a person falls into the category love at first sight, he/she may ignore the other traits whether bad or good. I believe the word “prejudging” is best to describe this effect
Also a 30 second exclamation that is the cable was so good, it may show in light the review as an immature reviewer, bias or worse a paid review. Normally the review should compare a couple of times in AB mode before coming to any conclusions. The review is not comparing budget stuff but high price cables. This is made worse by the next blog which promotes the new cable king and asking readers to go and find out more
At least when the review is written, do so with more tact, so that readers do not miss conceive your new found joy.
I do not doubt that this cable in any sense a bad sounding cable.
The header in the review is pretty demeaning to the other cables that lost. Statements like “Then there is everyone else” where the Stage 3 is the best and every one is a follower should be avoided or rephrase. This reads as you berating the other cables as they are no way close
This reads as a harsh comment but do take it in good faith. I am not doubting your ears but a clear disapproval of your review methods and phrasing of words hence this post
Dear KM Ng,
I think we need to give room for 'freedom of expression' to our blogger, as for discernment we need to leave it to the reader and it is the reader responsibility to verify the facts. If it happens that we belongs to different school of thoughts from the blogger, we can either learn from them or ignore their comment.
I feel that in many Hifi forum the problem starts when someone try to ‘convert’ certain ‘conviction’, then things start to look ugly. I think at the end of the day this is still only a HOBBY. Imagine we go from musician->mic->recording equipment->master copy->replicate copy->hifi system->listener... I am not sure I miss something in between, there is just too many variation in the process. My point is, if we really want a pure sonic experience, go for a life concert (without PA amplification), even this is not absolute as our hearing may not be perfect!!! Few years ago I went for a hearing test... guess what my right and left ear hearing ability is different and is it not linear!!!
From my observation, you are a season Audiophile. Let share together what you have learn to make good sound without spending big money. Do people spend more on cables than their equipments? YES, for some people this is the only way to upgrade their system without their WIFE noticing it :-)
Lim
10 years ago, he was a nobody. he had just been eliminated from a singing competition. he subsequently released an album but nobody (malaysian) was buying. most malaysians think he is (was) too ugly and trying to imitate david tao (which was the rave then).
he was in the 'slump' from the start. i remember interviewing him for the star newspaper. he didn't even lift his head up when he walked. when he spoke, he was ever so soft and shy. nobody gave him a chance. nobody.
it took a taiwanese producer/mentor to recognize his immense talent and brought him back to taiwan to groom him. he had a hard time coping with life in taiwan since his mandarin wasn't good but he persevered. few years later, he finally got to release an album and the song, a cover of karyn white's "superwoman" became an instant hit... taiwanese adore him, hong kong fans adore him , the whole world adore him but malaysians? they were the last to catch up with the rest of the world. malaysians have no choice but to agree with the rest of the world.
and just last week he won the equivalent of grammy award in taiwan - the first ever by a malaysian.
his name is gary cao ge.
the same story happened to a lot of prominent malaysians who made in good abroad and internationally but get very little support from their fellow malaysians.
KM Ng and Nicholaschua,
Several questions:
1]Have you actually heard The cable?If not how can you pretend to understand MaggieLurva's enthusiasm, and go on to disprove his comment?I would appreciate/take your comment more seriously if you guys were actually there to listen.It is like someone who has never seen an aeroplane ,and you try to describe to him such thing actually exist ,how do you start?
2]There are cars for the masses,and there is one that is the special one for every generation.Could it be the special cable for our generation?I do not know,but for someone who invest quite heavily on hi-fi ,I intend to find out more{could be my first purchase locally]
3]Would I spend on a cable that cost as much as a whole system?I would if it gives me what I want in term of sonic performance.some other people might spend on other things;but for me if there is such cable that could elevate my whole system to another level,why not?We are not gear obsessed are we?{already I am seeing such results with Bybee Golden goddess..
Keep up the good work Maggielurva,and I hope you would do it YOUR way.....I like it
nicholaschua,
I,m sorry,i find your view rather naive..
Yeah,I agree that there are some cables that do shines through with a certain genre of music,just like CDP,AMP etc;but in my humble experience those are mainly in the entry level to midlevel systems.In carefully engineered products,the performance will always shine through[well 99% of the time at least] irrespective of musics being played.IF you have actually listened enough of true reference systems you will know what I mean.That is why they are call REFERENCE system...
well we cansee that Mr KMNg,comes from the camp that believe that the speaker is the most important...well I come from another camp .I believe.... well it doesn't matter ,I spend most on my source{Meitner]followed by cables{Argento].Even my stand[Finite Elemente} cost more than my speakers[Acapella b/shelf bought used!!!!]and I don't even use a pre amp!!!!
Not many people approved ,but hey My ears do...
km ng
On your further comments that were addressed to me:
On your point 1.
Thanks you.
On your points 2 & 3,
Obviously, I would love to listen to the ASP Gryphon in my system, when I can get them off maggielurva’s deadly clutch. :-) (No, no, I have told him my interest and we’ll get it arranged later).
But why do you want to read my further ‘review’ of the ASP Gryphon? It would be better if you go listen to them yourself and form your opinion instead of hearing indirectly from me. Nothing beats a real listening session.
On your point 4,
What is the reader suppose to think about the headline?
Well, the headline was designed to attract readers’ attention, so that they’ll read the body of the post to see what it is all about. I am no great writer, but this is what I learn from magazines and newspaper. :-)
On your point 5,
Appreciate your humor.
On your point 6,
These are relative scores and maggielurva used a 100-point scale. The winner is pegged at 100, then others in the group fall in their relative positions. We can also use a 50-point scale, then ASP Gryphon will be assigned 50, then the others will be 40, 37.5....We can also use a 4 point scale, then the others will be 3.2, 3 ... ad nauseam.
They are not absolute scores.
nicholaschua,
You said that my header was demeaning to other cables and I was berating the other cables in my comments…. Wow. I never intended any of that. Please read my reply to km ng above on how the header came about. The header was not wrong too, the ASP Gryphon was ahead and the other cables were clustered closely together further down from this listening session.
Example, see the headlines on the July issue of stereophile? It says “Vinyl Rules”, I am a digital guy, so should I take it that it was demeaning to digital? Another says “Primaluna’s Tube CD Player: The biggest soundstage ever”, so it implies ‘everyone else’s’ CD players lose out on soundstaging, including those Wadias, dCSs, EMMLabs etc, should we protest this headline?
They were designed to attract people’s attention. That’s all.
About the other cables, I said, in blog and in comments, ‘they were all excellent cables in their own right’, ‘I’ll be happy to live with any one of them’. You’d also know that I own a pair of AQ Sky, and I enjoy them tremendously, they are excellent. So, there was no demeaning and berating. Your conclusion might have gone a bit too far.
I have explained all I need to about what I wrote, and will stand by every word.
I’ll just move on from here.
km ng and nicholaschua,
May i ask - What cables are you using for you system? Can you reveal? And do they cost more than RM200?
I suspect you two have no rights to comment/criticize on maggierlurva and hifi kaki if you are playing at primary school level.
Our two men here are playing at premier league.
You only look foolish in front of everybody.
Guys,
To be frank I really enjoy KM Ng's input.There is a certain honesty in the way he writes ;which he does very well.
Having said that ,that does not mean I agree with what he said fully;nor I with maggielurva's{I can't even agree with my wife;she think I am wasting money on hi-fi I told her it is an investment in my health}
That's what makes this blog different.You have a very gracious host in Maggielurva;the perfect gentleman in hi-Fi kaki;and some very interesting and knowladgeable readers.
Hope the blog will continue to prosper!!!!!
With regards to Gary Cao, he may be the first to pick up a Golden Melody award, but Micheal Wong (one half of the famous 無印良品 duo, now split) was already in the nominations way back in 2006. With regards to talent, Micheal Wong is more talented, as he is not only as singer but also a very good composer. In term of album sales, I think he does better than Gary Cao...
And this talent was recognised from the very start of the 無印良品 group. So some talents may be obvious from the very start ;-)
to the last anonymous.
I think just because somebody use entry level gears does not necessarily mean he "has no right" to critizise someone who play at premier league.
since you are into footbal, a great player does not necessarily makes a great coach.So of the best coach were in facts just amatures .I think those 2 skills are mutually exclusive.
The same with hi-fi gears.i think if you are experienced enought you would have heared entry level systems sounding better than megasystem....the price of gears do not translate into performance.PLEASE GET THAT.
HST,I really apprewciate actual experience;there are so many gears out there,so many combinations where do you start?you start with experience people.I think,and I am sure having read some of the posts,maggielurva would agree;it is Ok to differ,BUT I think we have too many armchair critics.
I hope a lot of people would listen to this cables.better still have a DEMO during the KLIAV show.We will find out for sure how good this stuff is....JMHO
nicholaschua,
you seems to be very angry,not in propotion to the posts.Can't you take jokes???I you a dealer that sell the competing cables ? It is ok you know .We all know that there are always better gears out there. sometimes we have to take things easy and appreciate humor,and not see everything in black and white.live is too short for that.
CHEERS...
To anonymous Mr Lim,
Yes I do agree with your last comment.
My wife never noticed whenever I change cables,and i do change cables quite a bit!!!1
Obviously the ASP has provided the author exactly what he has been hearing for. So a 30 sec conclusion is not surprising becos all this time he has been singing the tune of......"But I still haven't found what I'm looking for".....
Sometimes cables sound so different or provide so much difference in how the system sounds that one will immediately take to a liking. I am sure we have had our moments of excitement and great enthusiasm when we inserted something and heard what we have been looking for. It's not a matter of better but finding what we have been looking for.
So i can understand the excitement. Others will just have to find out if they will feel the same.
yes,you must trust your ears....
the problem now is that hi-fi in Malaysia is quite inaccesable .And people who know a little bit start becoming armchair critics.
If you areas old as I am ,and has been a music lover as long as I am you would realize that musical reproductions has come a very very long way....You should never use convertional wisdom or standard;there are always groundbreaking products that is worth listening and saviouring.
For my that moment was a few years ago when a rich friend invited me over for a listen .I was astounded,I was puzzled ,how could he get such sound,such details,such beutiful musics.He smiled and showed me to the small gorgeous cartridge;Koetsu Tiger Eye platinum.I did not believed him at first but after hearing different one I realized that it was indeed,truly special.I went on with my life ,always dreaming of the magic of that night.
Last year for my 70th birthday ,my son came back home fr London and give me a small box,when i opened I realized it was the magical cartridge[bless him,,that good boy]I am living in the twilight of my life ,but every night is so magical to me.If I were to die today I would die happy.GO CHASE YOUR DREAMs,I told my son before,and bless him he even chase my dream for me
uncle keat,
Thanks for the story.
Good for you and good on your son. He is a good boy indeed. I wish you will have many more years to enjoy your wonderful cartridge and the wonderful music it brings.
Dear all,
Wow! So many varied comments. This is good as it show the "tonal character" and "inner detail" of each commentator.
Lim,
1. I can't say I'm an audiophile but more of a music lover with a "nasty" habit of trying (still trying, I'm afraid) to get good sound within my ability and resources.
2. I'm fortunate to mix with many different people having different ideas and methodologies of getting good sound - from vinyl to digital, small to big speakers, high power ss to SE tube, tweakers, DIYers, etc (and of course, this cable afficionadoes group). I keep an open mind as there is much to learn from each of them.
3. You hit the audio nail on the head by asking how "to make good sound without spending big money?" This, I think, makes our audio pursuit most interesting and challenging. Of course those having the big $$$ will sneer at this "cheapskate and self deceiving" way but frankly, I admire more those who make their modest system sing prettily (much exceeding the system cost) than those so-called high end big systems which magnify the weaknesses.
Dear Dato R,
1. No, I've not heard the cable and I'm going to get myself invited to Maggielurva house to listen.
2. No hypocrisy on my part. If you would read my comments again, I've made no adverse comments on the cable (how could I when I haven't heard it?) but only commented on Maggielurva and Hifikaki "reviews" which I think are of "irrational exuberance." Well, who knows? Maybe, when I heard the cable myself, I'd be jumping up and down all over with my fists punching upwards as if I've scored the winning goal in the Euro 2008 final. :)
3. If everybody agrees and cheerleading each other, wouldn't it be boring in this blog? Diversity of thoughts and opinions open up our minds.
4. All the best to you in your cable or other upgrades.
Dear Schmidt,
1. No, I believe ALL are important. Please read my 4 cornerstones and other comments of good sound.
Dear Hifikaki,
1. Like I've said, I'm going to to get myself invited to Maggielurva house for a listen. Hope to meet up with you there.
Dear Anon of 10:27AM,
1. If you'd identify yourself, perhaps I'd give you a dignity of a reply.
2. Read your comments again (and over and over again if you can't get it) to find out who is the foolish one.
Dear Jacques,
1 Thanks and all the best in your hifi endeavours. You're right!
Music is a only prescription for good health with no hangovers.
Dear CK Loh,
1. Forget about our dear Anon. He has made no contribution to the furtherance of hifi or music.
hifikaki,
i think you can write and...
1. i trust that the interconnects are of the same price range; perhaps with plus minus 1-2%.
2. "The music through maggielurva’s system with the ASP Gryphon this morning was so real, it was like I was going to the concerts – I had 2v1g and Rickie Lee Jones performing in maggielurva’s hall live for me. I think there can’t be any higher accolade."
do you think that will happen to all set ups?
3. "the bass was excellent, it came on strong and even rattled my listening seat", you said...
which song was it?
cheers.
uncle keat,
your presence here inspires me! it is so kool to have a senior citizen reading this blog.
gentlemen, let's hear it from someone who's been there done that. looking forward to have more of your wise words in this blog!
built62,
1. I only know the rrp for the AQ Sky, which is USD2.5k. I suppose you can google for their prices.
2. Honestly, I don't know.
3. It is from Teddy Robin's CD. Please refer to maggielurva's blog entry for details:
http://desirableaudio.blogspot.com/
2008/01/playboy-strikes-back.html
I don't know which track because I have not come around to get one for myself, and maggielurva controlled the remote during the session.
hifikaki,
i am sure you must have exaggerated when you described that the chair rattled. you are not actually feather weight; you know... :D
btw, what subwoofer is maggie using?
built62,
How do you know that I am not featherweight?! Have we met before?
But you are right lah, I am not exactly featherweight. :-)
I described what I felt.
maggielurva does not use a subwoofer.
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