i can't remember many times where my system's component were soundly beaten by another intruder. the torus came and crushed the shunyata, to the extent that, i could hardly go back to listen the shunyata again. the torus' definition and micro-detailing is the best so far i have heard. i am going to write to the manufacturer and ask them to consider making a US-version for our market.

this is the most severe case of withdrawing symptom i am suffering now. panzer and hifikaki can attest that it seldom happens to me.

i am going to adopt the ostrich policy and switch off my system for a couple of days... anyway, i am driving back to ipoh for cheng ming this weekend.

have a nice weekend, guys.

24 comments:

Felix said...

ML,

I feel yr suffering!

They won't do it. Nema 5 american plugs are only rated to safely take up to 125volts. They can't get the CE approval if they supplied 125v Nema 5 plugs to be used in a 240v environment like M'sia.

The older version comes with IEC outputs. Don't know if they will still do that.

You can check with James of Audio Visual Designs. 03 2171 2828

Good luck!

Anonymous said...

ML,
why not try the purepower ? i understand they just as good and come with american outputs ? what is your reservation trying the purepower ?
i am smittened by all the hyper inputs on the torus and intent in buying but with american outputs. Already emailed torus if they can change the outputs for direct delivery. waitng for reply.
i have read panzer's review but anyone else in this forum who have anything to say on the purepower ? any reliability problems ? Am going to try it myself when get the chance.
Mr Felix, why must be Nema 5 ? There are so many other american products with american outlets. Are these Nema 5s ?Can you enlighten ?

ktlee said...

mr FELIX,

With due respect,I cant understand the manufacturers reluctance at a.

the IEC PULUGS ARE JUST BETTER THAN THE british version,and all of the other Manufacturers has the US plugs.

maybe the Local dealer could enlighten us.

thanks for your explanations anyway

Ken said...

ML and Hifikaki,

I understand that both of you are smittenby the Torus, but can you tell me how it affects

1.frequency extension on both sides of the spectrum

2.dynamics of your system

3.imaging and soundstage width and depth

4.effortlessness compare to Shunyata

Felix said...

Anonymous 11.45
Standard american plugs are Nema 5-15 if I am not mistaken. Rated to handle 125v max safely. Not 240volts.

ktlee,
Sound not withstanding, the british plugs are superior in voltage handling terms. American plugs are "flimsy-er" and have less metal. If you understand metalurgy or physics, putting an american plug through higher voltage can be downright dangerous...

For that matter, why are our 15 "heater" plugs much bigger than our 13A plugs?

Ken,
I would like to say, at least 30% improvements on items 1,2,3 and 4 but since I don't have Shunyata experience, I shall leave item 4 out.

One other area which is very apparent is, the control and definition in the bass regions are very obvious. The micro-dynamics at the highs have to be heard to be believed.

You have piqued my curiosity however. I shall find means of auditioning a Shunyata.

hifikaki said...

Hi Ken,

My take of the difference between Shunyata and Torus Power in my system is:

1. frenquency extension - the extension is the same at the top, just that Shunyata has a silver tone with a slightly golden hue, while Torus is more pure silver.
At the bottom, Torus extends slightly deeper (don't ask me how many Hz :-) ), and the bass note definition thru Torus is much much better.

2. Dynamics - Torus Power is better. Macro dynamics has a sense of ease, like my amp has became more powerful.

3. Soundstage width & depth are the same between the two, I feel.
Imaging wise, the Torus Power is better, it has more 'pixel' in the picture. The image is more dimensional, more details and denser, it is also more crisp. (this is the no smearing/veiling part I was talking about)

4. Effortlessness - Torus sounded more effortless. This is the 'my system sounded more confident' part. Music, loud or quiet, just came out very well.

Anonymous said...

Hifikaki,
You have the higher range of Shunyata cables. Try ordinary cables like the ones that come with your computer and then see how good the Torus is.
Felix,
What cables are you using with your Torus? I am guessing not a single one is in the same class as what hifikaki uses now.

I think you can figure out where I am going with this.

hifikaki said...

anonymous,

Yes, that will be an interesting contrast.

Btw, I have also noted that to use my Shunyata powercords I have to utilize adaptors, which may negate the Shunyata powercords' quality to an extent. That's why JoKi said we'll get even better sound quality when this is addressed.

I am not thrashing Shunyata Hydra 8, it is still an EXCELLENT plc. The Torus is just simply a better one in my system but we have to bear in mind the huge gap in price between the two.

Anonymous said...

wow, this subject on plc sure has generated a lot of interest. Guess its widely accepted by audiophiles what GOOD POWER means. M, Panzer & Hifikaki, hope you can review the shunyata v ray soon. This subject is hot.

km ng said...

M: "Doc, you must help me! I'm suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes, I think I'm an ostrich!"

The doctor subjected M to detailed medical examination and tests.

A few days later...

Doc: "M, I got good news and bad news for you."

M: "Tell me the good news first."

Doc: "You are definately not an ostrich."

M was very relieved and happy.

M: "Now, what's the bad news?"

Doc: "You are flapping your arms again!"

Felix said...

Anonymous 11.03

I have no idea what you are trying to imply.

I am not here to put any equipment down at all. I believe all equipment has their own merits and is suitable for select systems. That, alone is up to individuals to find out. But for me the Torus just takes the cake. Gives me the unbias platform for me to build my system up.

I am afraid I don't use very exotic cables, not because I don't believe in them but because my hifi budget may not allow at this point and that my simplistic system negates me doing so for the time being.

For incoming, I use WW Aurora and output I use my own AOR Reference 003. I am constantly thinkering with cables so one day I may end up with the Shunyata.

km ng said...

Felix,

From your explanation, I would think (hopefully wrong) American plugs are "underspec" in our 240V power grid. Well, then why do most audiophiles here use them? Perhaps, most exotic and expensive cables come from America or Japan already terminated with American plugs. Also, easier to compare/change cables. So, not much of a choice.

If I'm not mistaken, FM Acoustics terminated their cables (non-detachable from equipment) with British plugs for Malaysian/Singapore markets. Likewise, Naim recommended the same.

Bottom line, I think Torus, FM Acoustics and Naim, being esteemed manufacturers, know what they are doing. Would they do something to compromise safety or degrade the sound of their own equipment?


ktlee,

With due respect, have you done tests (listening, lab, safety or others) to determine American plugs are better than equivalent British ones in our 240V power grid?

Please enlighten us.

Thanks.


Hifikaki,

Now that you have done extensive aural tests of Torus vs Shunyata in your hifi system, can you please do some visual tests in your AV system to collaborate findings, if any.

Thanks.

Panzer said...

ML,

I feel for you. I haven't switched on my system for a week since the departure of the Torus Power!

Won't know if the poison is cleared by now?

Hopefully will find out tomorow morning!

hifikaki said...

km ng,

As for the PLCs' visual prowess, I can attest that the Shunyata Hydra 8 does wonders to my Astro reception, LCD tv and DVD player. The image is much less rough (esp Astro) & richer. The colour is truer to natural tone (e.g., skin tone).

Because of the time limit, I did not test the Torus Power on my AV system though. However, to extrapolate from its sonic performance, I think it should be excellent with AV too.

Anonymous said...

It just strike my cord that only the american camp suffers and in needs of all these exotic power cords and conditioners. I don't see the need in British hifi.It shows how expensive to own Americans.British is honest to Malaysians.

Anonymous said...

British standards is just a colonial hangover, in Europe they did not even adopt these standards.
FM Acoustics is European and Torus is Canadian. They just elect to use british standards so as not to compromise safety in such countries

Anonymous said...

Just ask the repair men and the american stuff are the ones that make them merry.They are just too sensitive for our country.

Anonymous said...

In a similar fashion, in an country like Japan and US, it's the british stuff that are making the electrians merry. Any look at any british audio forums, they are the most skeptical when power cords/connectors are concerned, so I doubt they will even bother with what goes into the construction of a good power cord or IEC connector.

Anonymous said...

So the american's power supply designs are considered flawed when they arrive at our shore and they require other power conditioner to make it sing. I also know some one who need to power up for an hour before it sings! He really has all the luxury of time on his own. A good design does not need this. Hifi is a game of foolish people, the higher you go the bigger the circle and you start going round and round and with no end to it and you are tired and confused. You should be the master and not the slave to your hifi equipments.

I hope ML's ancestors will englighten him in the coming week.

Felix said...

Anonymous 2.12,

Leave family or ancestors out of this. I think your last statement is distasteful and disrespectful. If you want to say things like this, be a man and don't hide behind the keyboard.

Guys, I feel the topic is getting a little off track. We are talking about SAFETY. Not about sound superiority. What has sound got to do with whether its American style or British style plugs?

Honestly, if there are enough quantity from everyone here, I am sure we can organize a group buy for the Torus with american Nema 5-15 plugs output. They just can't get the CE certification, that's all. We just need a minimum quantity.

Any takers?

Anonymous said...

Aiyah, Felix, Ching Ming or All Souls day is coming this weekend. At the same time we make offering and respect to our departed, we also seek their blessing and guidance so that we can have a smooth journey in this world.
ML is suffering and he is off for Ching Ming this weekend, so what's wrong with my statement that his ancestor will enlighten him????

Anonymous said...

anonymous 2.12 pm.

Looks like you yourself has been through that "foolish" route yourself, to know its.. "foolish" ? So now you have become smart ? So what is your business here in this forum ? Listening to foolish talk ? Gotcha !!

Ken said...

Hi Hifikaki and Felix,

Thanks for your low-down on the Torus plc. Seems to be good.

To me, the most important aspect of a review is to inform the readers what is the sound of a hardware. We can say that a certain hardware is good but what we really want to know is how good, i.e. how does it differ to say another equipment and what changes it made to the sound of a cd, preferably a well known one.

I am using the RGPC600. Have tried the AudioMagic Stealth and Shunyata Hydra 6 (courtesy of ML). So after the explanation, I can hazard a guess how the sound has change.

Rgds

Ken said...

Hi Hifikaki and Felix,

Thanks for the lowdown on the differences the Torus has brought to your system.

This is really what I want to know when I read a review, i.e. how the sound changes in a system when a new component is being introduced and also how the sound changes when compared to a previous or existing component and lastly what changes you can hear from a common audiophile cd.

You see, I always believe that after reading a review, I can roughly guess what is the "signature" sound of the reviewed hardware.

Thanks again